Comments on: Yes! No! Maybe so? http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/ An you thought we were just bad in our books... Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:36:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Shelli http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-819 Shelli Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:57:13 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-819 Hey Dennie! I'm wondering the same thing. Some of the scenes I've considered 'forced seductions' as I later discussed with someone, aren't what they'd consider forced seduction. So maybe the whole forced seduction thing is a big grey area, like someone else said. Hey Dennie! I’m wondering the same thing. Some of the scenes I’ve considered ‘forced seductions’ as I later discussed with someone, aren’t what they’d consider forced seduction. So maybe the whole forced seduction thing is a big grey area, like someone else said.

]]> By: ~ Dennie http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-812 ~ Dennie Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:42:40 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-812 hmm . . .I don't know that I ever noticed anything being forced--as you mean it anyway. I guess I get more wrapped up in the seduction portion and done well. . . well then the author has done a good job! then again--I may not have read anything as intense as you're describing in this. hmm . . .I don’t know that I ever noticed anything being forced–as you mean it anyway. I guess I get more wrapped up in the seduction portion and done well. . . well then the author has done a good job!

then again–I may not have read anything as intense as you’re describing in this.

]]> By: Karen http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-807 Karen Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:41:25 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-807 Great topic Shelli! I have to admit I don't mind a forced seduction when it's done right (i.e. Claiming the Courtesan) and I do think it fits better when it's in a historical. Of course I never want to see a rape pretending to be a forced seduction and luckily enough I don't think I've ever run into one of those. And yes because I read a lot of them when I was younger they don't bother me so much. They were so popular in the 80s historicals! I'm happy to see how everyone is discussing this nicely. I love to read everyone's opinions - and glad I don't have to do this :surrender: Great topic Shelli! I have to admit I don’t mind a forced seduction when it’s done right (i.e. Claiming the Courtesan) and I do think it fits better when it’s in a historical. Of course I never want to see a rape pretending to be a forced seduction and luckily enough I don’t think I’ve ever run into one of those.

And yes because I read a lot of them when I was younger they don’t bother me so much. They were so popular in the 80s historicals!

I’m happy to see how everyone is discussing this nicely. I love to read everyone’s opinions - and glad I don’t have to do this :surrender:

]]> By: Shelli http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-806 Shelli Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:51:40 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-806 And I certainly respect everyone's difference in opinion. I was just curious to see the variety of view points that would come up with the discussion. And I certainly respect everyone’s difference in opinion. I was just curious to see the variety of view points that would come up with the discussion.

]]> By: Amanda brice http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-804 Amanda brice Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:30:52 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-804 Lillian says: "In I sense, I guess I think BDSM books can be modern day forced seduction stories. The difference is that we know from the get-go that there is an agreement between the players, that the heroine has chosen to give over that power." ________________________________________ And IMO, that's a BIG and very important difference and is one reason why I don't have a problem with BDSM books, yet I have a problem with forced seduction. You know from the start that the submissive has made this choice and there are certain ground rules, whereas in a non-BDSM "force" scenario? *shakes head* I just can't see how being forced into doing something you don't want to do (and if deep down she really does want to do it, she's not really being forced), but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Lillian says:
“In I sense, I guess I think BDSM books can be modern day forced seduction stories. The difference is that we know from the get-go that there is an agreement between the players, that the heroine has chosen to give over that power.”

________________________________________
And IMO, that’s a BIG and very important difference and is one reason why I don’t have a problem with BDSM books, yet I have a problem with forced seduction. You know from the start that the submissive has made this choice and there are certain ground rules, whereas in a non-BDSM “force” scenario? *shakes head* I just can’t see how being forced into doing something you don’t want to do (and if deep down she really does want to do it, she’s not really being forced), but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

]]> By: Carrie http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-803 Carrie Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:01:26 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-803 Forced seductions don't usually work for me, because even if, deep down, the heroine wants it, unless the hero is a mind reader, he can't really know that. To me it just plays into the whole excuse I've heard from many rapists (having been a rape crisis counselor), that even if a woman says no, she doesn't really mean it. That he just *knew* she wanted it, he could just *tell*. Frankly, I don't find a hero who values his own sexual satisfaction more than the wishes of the heroine (sure, maybe her body is ready for sex, but maybe her mind isn't ready, whether it's because of societal strictures in a historical, or what have you--and aren't the heroine's thoughts/feelings just as important as her body's responses?) to be sexy. And that's how most of the forced seductions I've come across read to me. There are a few exceptions, like if actual psychological reasons are given for the force, and if the hero actually redeems himself from his earlier ways. But that's just what works/doesn't work for me, of course. Forced seductions don’t usually work for me, because even if, deep down, the heroine wants it, unless the hero is a mind reader, he can’t really know that. To me it just plays into the whole excuse I’ve heard from many rapists (having been a rape crisis counselor), that even if a woman says no, she doesn’t really mean it. That he just *knew* she wanted it, he could just *tell*.

Frankly, I don’t find a hero who values his own sexual satisfaction more than the wishes of the heroine (sure, maybe her body is ready for sex, but maybe her mind isn’t ready, whether it’s because of societal strictures in a historical, or what have you–and aren’t the heroine’s thoughts/feelings just as important as her body’s responses?) to be sexy. And that’s how most of the forced seductions I’ve come across read to me.

There are a few exceptions, like if actual psychological reasons are given for the force, and if the hero actually redeems himself from his earlier ways.

But that’s just what works/doesn’t work for me, of course.

]]> By: Shelli http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-802 Shelli Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:46:12 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-802 Hey sorry I'm chimming in late to reply to everyone, I was out of town! I agree that it works best in historical, or you know, sci fi which I'm writing now which can have a historical feel. I also think Lill has a point. BDSM has become a good outlet for it. It is a thin line, but it's a clear one to me. I can see it. I agree people either love it or hate it. Both with equal passion. I guess it's also because it was what I was raised on. I focus on the word seduction instead of forced. Because yes deep down she wants it, I know that about the heroine before he touches her. The force in forced seducion makes the heroine (or hero) really pushes them to be seduced. Otherwise it would be forced sex. Not forced seduction. Maybe I make no sense. I'm a wee bit tired. Hey sorry I’m chimming in late to reply to everyone, I was out of town!

I agree that it works best in historical, or you know, sci fi which I’m writing now which can have a historical feel. I also think Lill has a point. BDSM has become a good outlet for it.

It is a thin line, but it’s a clear one to me. I can see it. I agree people either love it or hate it. Both with equal passion. I guess it’s also because it was what I was raised on.

I focus on the word seduction instead of forced. Because yes deep down she wants it, I know that about the heroine before he touches her. The force in forced seducion makes the heroine (or hero) really pushes them to be seduced. Otherwise it would be forced sex. Not forced seduction.

Maybe I make no sense. I’m a wee bit tired.

]]> By: Rhonda http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-801 Rhonda Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:04:42 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-801 Hm--Okay, I can try reading comprehension (LOL)...I see the last sentence or so of your post, Lillian, addresses what I wrote--the readers and characters all know in BDSM that this is a chosen desire. Hm–Okay, I can try reading comprehension (LOL)…I see the last sentence or so of your post, Lillian, addresses what I wrote–the readers and characters all know in BDSM that this is a chosen desire.

]]> By: Rhonda http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-800 Rhonda Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:03:43 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-800 Hmmm...here's a question about BDSM and forced seduction--if she's choosing a BDSM lifestyle, can you really say she's being "forced" into anything, then? Even when she's under someone's control, she's purposefully, intentionally chosen that. Would you call it forced seduction in that case? Or would it be termed something else? I'm just curious... Hmmm…here’s a question about BDSM and forced seduction–if she’s choosing a BDSM lifestyle, can you really say she’s being “forced” into anything, then? Even when she’s under someone’s control, she’s purposefully, intentionally chosen that. Would you call it forced seduction in that case? Or would it be termed something else?

I’m just curious…

]]> By: Cara Carnes http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-799 Cara Carnes Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:58:42 +0000 http://www.naughty-and-spice.com/2007/07/30/yes-no-maybe-so/#comment-799 I personally love them when they are done correctly. I agree with Robin and Tawny. It is a thin line, and one that can only be walked by those authors that are able to understand the underlying fantasy well enough to portray it in the scene. I personally love them when they are done correctly. I agree with Robin and Tawny. It is a thin line, and one that can only be walked by those authors that are able to understand the underlying fantasy well enough to portray it in the scene.

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